Discussion:
The greatest messages of the New Testament
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Truth Hunter
2004-06-06 02:18:37 UTC
Permalink
The greatest messages of the New Testament


"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"


Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.

Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?


So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.

No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.




http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
s_tripe8
2004-06-06 02:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
Now that's what I call taking a verse out of context. And on top of that,
improperly applying it to an extreme hypothetical case.
s_tripe8
2004-06-06 02:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
Now that's what I call taking a verse out of context. And on top of that,
improperly applying it to an extreme hypothetical case.
Mike Craney
2004-06-06 02:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
Silly. "Turn the other cheek" has nothing to do with preventing your
from fulfiling your responsibility for those under your protection.

Or, to put it another way, you have to turn *your* cheek, but not at the
cost of someone else's "cheek."
Post by Truth Hunter
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No. You ought to understand the concept before you write about it.
Mike
Damion Perez
2004-06-06 05:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Though it does not say it in the King James Standard Version translation the
original commandment of "Thou shalt not kill", was in truth "Thou shalt not
take a man's life without just cause" in the Standard version and original
hebrew text. In the King James;Strong translation, Modern King James
version, Webster's, World English, and Basic English translations all say
"Thou Shalt not commit murder."
Post by Truth Hunter
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
That is utterly ridiculious, it is a parent's duty to raise, protect,
comfort, and teach their children. By doing as you say then the parent is
committing a sin no matter how they act. Also if you have accepted Jesus
into your heart and asked for the understanding then he would have given it
to you. However as he had done to the Elders who praised him and prayed
with their lips, but not with their hearts, they were damned by Jesus. This
is exactly what you are doing by corrupting God's laws and his teachings.
Self defense is not a sin, while rape and theft are and punishable by death
according to God's Law. So by the father taking the bat and killing the
intruder in his house to protect his family is not a crime, nor is it a sin.
Also God never said to turn the other cheek in situations like these. SO
continue damning yourself in God's eyes, but do not seek to spread your
corruption here.
Post by Truth Hunter
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
The only hypocrite here is you, you claim to be a truth hunter, yet you are
doing satan's work. We know that he has many disguises, and you are only
one of them.
Post by Truth Hunter
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
Again, you are corrupting the word of God by picking and choosing a single
verse here and there. His word is not a single verse though, and you have
to know the complete bible before full understanding is given. Many verses
in the new testament is only clarified by other verses in the old and new
testaments.

Now I am going to obey God's law and forgive you of this trespass and turn
the other cheek. I am telling you to pray for your forgiveness and to
accept him into your heart. Once you have done so ask him for the
understanding of his word and he will give it to you if you are truly
repentant. Be afraid though because if you pray to him with your lips and
not with your heart he will know and damn you. Your soul depends on your
truthfulness and obedience to his will. I will pray for your salvation as
well.

Respectfully,

Damion Perez
Crusader Wabbit
2004-06-06 13:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.

I've said many a time that "if you're still alive, you probably aren't a
good Christian". Not true in the larger sense, but there is some truth to
it.
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Christopher A. Lee
2004-06-06 15:21:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Crusader Wabbit
2004-06-06 15:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
Christopher A. Lee
2004-06-06 15:48:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:44:44 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
No, moron. To anybody outside your religion. For exactly the same
reason tha Koran is worthless to you.

I've never understood why so many of you fail to grasp this obvious
point.

It's hardly rocket science. But then you're a typical Christian
sociopath who imagines his delusions apply to everybody.
Crusader Wabbit
2004-06-06 17:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:44:44 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
No, moron. To anybody outside your religion. For exactly the same
reason tha Koran is worthless to you.
I've never understood why so many of you fail to grasp this obvious
point.
It's hardly rocket science. But then you're a typical Christian
sociopath who imagines his delusions apply to everybody.
Delusions of goodness do apply to everybody ...
Christopher A. Lee
2004-06-06 17:20:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:13:17 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:44:44 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand
the
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
No, moron. To anybody outside your religion. For exactly the same
reason tha Koran is worthless to you.
I've never understood why so many of you fail to grasp this obvious
point.
It's hardly rocket science. But then you're a typical Christian
sociopath who imagines his delusions apply to everybody.
Delusions of goodness do apply to everybody ...
Which is of course a total non-sequitur.
g***@fortalnet.com.br
2004-06-08 12:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:44:44 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
It's hardly rocket science. But then you're a typical Christian
sociopath who imagines his delusions apply to everybody.
Why should your definition of sociopath be worth anything
to anyone else besides you? From your stated point of view,
all other people's religion and philosophy are "delusions".
I even recognize your right to take this point of view.
What I don't reconize is consistency in you wanting to
participate in anys discussion whatsoever... since all
your definions are (confessedly) 100% subjective.
walksalone
2004-06-06 17:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
Then it is safe to presume you do not get the message of Sida, Agni, Shiva,
Sien Tsan, the Sidhe, Shou Hsing, or even the oh so kind, oh so gentle, oh
so enlightening Aditi?

After all, in your search for salvation, one would hope you studied all the
information available before choosing which god to go with, or goddess for
that matter.

Maybe you can tell the audience what you know about some of the following
deity's, & why they can not be the real one.

After all, they are all creators.

ai' tojon adamas agu'gux akongo
alatangana allah amma amma
amun antu anu aondo
apap aramazd archonssaboth arebati
ataa naa nygongmo aten atl atua fafine
atua i raropuka atum avalokitesvara awonawilona
ayi' uru'n toyo,n baiame brahma bulai
bulgang bumba cacoch cagu
cakra ce acatl cghene
chiconahuiehecatl
chnum
chul tatic chites vaneg
cihuacoatl quilaztli
cipacctonal citalatonac citalicue dharma
dyaus pitar e alom e quaholom ehecatl
el elohim elkunirsa ellel
emli hin enki epimetheus e'ros
es fidi mukullu hachacyum hao
Hindu hiranyagarbha hun hunapa hunab ku
hurracan ihoioi iksvaku il
imana imra ipalnemoani isten
isten itzam zacal nok iusaas izanangi no
kami
iznami no kami jehova jok julunggul
ka tyelo kaia kalunga kami musubi no
kami
kasisia kitanitowit kucumatz kukulkan
kumarbi kumokums kun tu ban pok kun tu bzan po
kyumbe kwoth laima lesa
leza libanza lisa lodur
lowalangi mahatala makemake maheo
maito mal malamanganga'e malamangangaifo
manitu manohel toehel manu marduk
mayon mbomba mbotumbo mehet weret
mkulumncandi moma mula djadi mungo
na'ininwn na' pe nahui ollin nainuema
nammu nanahuatl naeau narayana
nareu ne'nenkicex nediyon nefertuim
neith ngai niamye nu gua
nu kua nudimmud nut nyame
nzapa o kuni nushi no mikoto
ocelotl oduduwa ohoroxtotil olodumare
orisa nla orisania pachacmac panao
pemba pore prajapati promethus
prthu ptah purusa qamai'ts
quat quetzelcatl quetzacoatl quiahuti
raluvimbha re rigenmucha rubanga
ruhganga sa samael seyon
shomde sirao siva somtus
suku taka mi mitsubi no kami
tangara tate tawa te aka la roe
te manva roa te tanga engae teharonhiawagon
telavelik tenanto'mni tenanto'mwan thareon
tiamat tiki tino taata tirawa
tlaltchuti tloque nahauque tomor tomwo'get
tontiuh toro tororut totilma'il
trumual tsunigoab tvastar
umanssi ashi kabi hiko ji no kami
umvelinkwangi ungud unkulunkulu unumbote
unumbotte uru'n ajy toyo'n vahguru vairacocha
venda vile & ve visnu visvakarman
waka wakan tonka wakonda weir kumbamba
ya'qhicin yaldaboth yaro yehl
yemekonji yng yoalechutli yoalli echecatl


walksalone who does not really expect any intelligent answer, or answer for
that matter
Crusader Wabbit
2004-06-06 17:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
Then it is safe to presume you do not get the message of Sida, Agni, Shiva,
Sien Tsan, the Sidhe, Shou Hsing, or even the oh so kind, oh so gentle, oh
so enlightening Aditi?
I've heard of a few, by different names. Is Sida the same as the Way of
Sidda , Jainist ? Or is it the Dissolute Prince Siddhartha ( Buddha ) ? I
doubt very much if I *really* get the message of any of them, including
Jesus ... I'll just have to keep trying.
Post by walksalone
After all, in your search for salvation, one would hope you studied all the
information available before choosing which god to go with, or goddess for
that matter.
Maybe you can tell the audience what you know about some of the following
deity's, & why they can not be the real one.
After all, they are all creators.
This is a great list. If I recite all the names will something good happen
to me ? At least I'll fall asleep ....
Post by walksalone
ai' tojon adamas agu'gux akongo
alatangana allah amma amma
amun antu anu aondo
apap aramazd archonssaboth arebati
ataa naa nygongmo aten atl atua fafine
atua i raropuka atum avalokitesvara awonawilona
ayi' uru'n toyo,n baiame brahma bulai
bulgang bumba cacoch cagu
cakra ce acatl cghene
chiconahuiehecatl
chnum
chul tatic chites vaneg
cihuacoatl quilaztli
cipacctonal citalatonac citalicue dharma
dyaus pitar e alom e quaholom ehecatl
el elohim elkunirsa ellel
emli hin enki epimetheus e'ros
es fidi mukullu hachacyum hao
Hindu hiranyagarbha hun hunapa hunab ku
hurracan ihoioi iksvaku il
imana imra ipalnemoani isten
isten itzam zacal nok iusaas izanangi no
kami
iznami no kami jehova jok julunggul
ka tyelo kaia kalunga kami musubi no
kami
kasisia kitanitowit kucumatz kukulkan
kumarbi kumokums kun tu ban pok kun tu bzan po
kyumbe kwoth laima lesa
leza libanza lisa lodur
lowalangi mahatala makemake maheo
maito mal malamanganga'e
malamangangaifo
Post by walksalone
manitu manohel toehel manu marduk
mayon mbomba mbotumbo mehet weret
mkulumncandi moma mula djadi mungo
na'ininwn na' pe nahui ollin nainuema
nammu nanahuatl naeau narayana
nareu ne'nenkicex nediyon nefertuim
neith ngai niamye nu gua
nu kua nudimmud nut nyame
nzapa o kuni nushi no mikoto
ocelotl oduduwa ohoroxtotil olodumare
orisa nla orisania pachacmac panao
pemba pore prajapati promethus
prthu ptah purusa qamai'ts
quat quetzelcatl quetzacoatl quiahuti
raluvimbha re rigenmucha rubanga
ruhganga sa samael seyon
shomde sirao siva somtus
suku taka mi mitsubi no kami
tangara tate tawa te aka la roe
te manva roa te tanga engae teharonhiawagon
telavelik tenanto'mni tenanto'mwan thareon
tiamat tiki tino taata tirawa
tlaltchuti tloque nahauque tomor tomwo'get
tontiuh toro tororut totilma'il
trumual tsunigoab tvastar
umanssi ashi kabi hiko ji no kami
umvelinkwangi ungud unkulunkulu unumbote
unumbotte uru'n ajy toyo'n vahguru vairacocha
venda vile & ve visnu visvakarman
waka wakan tonka wakonda weir kumbamba
ya'qhicin yaldaboth yaro yehl
yemekonji yng yoalechutli yoalli echecatl
walksalone who does not really expect any intelligent answer, or answer for
that matter
Thank god. ;-)
walksalone
2004-06-06 20:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by walksalone
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:38:25 GMT, "Crusader Wabbit"
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand
the
Post by walksalone
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and
read
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
To you perhaps. Either one gets it or they don't.
Then it is safe to presume you do not get the message of Sida, Agni,
Shiva,
Post by walksalone
Sien Tsan, the Sidhe, Shou Hsing, or even the oh so kind, oh so gentle,
oh
Post by walksalone
so enlightening Aditi?
I've heard of a few, by different names.
Really, & what are those names, I study gods so that would be an item f
interest to me.
Post by walksalone
Is Sida the same as the Way of
Sidda , Jainist ? Or is it the Dissolute Prince Siddhartha ( Buddha ) ?
Neither, but then such is the way of those that expect others to perceive
what they do, the same way as they do.
Post by walksalone
I
doubt very much if I *really* get the message of any of them, including
Jesus ... I'll just have to keep trying.
If that is what you think you must do, I can only agree with you, for you &
only you though.
Post by walksalone
Post by walksalone
After all, in your search for salvation, one would hope you studied all
the
Post by walksalone
information available before choosing which god to go with, or goddess for
that matter.
Maybe you can tell the audience what you know about some of the following
deity's, & why they can not be the real one.
After all, they are all creators.
This is a great list. If I recite all the names will something good happen
It is a very small list [I suspect the entire list would be an obscene
thing to post due to the sheer size if the bugger, in excess of 25000 major
gods alone], but it should make an excellent sleep aid.
Post by walksalone
to me ? At least I'll fall asleep ....
Post by walksalone
ai' tojon adamas agu'gux akongo
alatangana allah amma amma
snip small list.
Post by walksalone
Post by walksalone
walksalone who does not really expect any intelligent answer, or answer
for
Post by walksalone
that matter
Thank god. ;-)
You're welcome.

walksalone who had never been called a god before, & doubts that was the
intent.
Nico Demusopelous
2004-06-08 02:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Actually, regardless of whether the NT reflects "somebody else's
religion," that does not mean it does not have a message. It seems to
have a very clear message: God's son has come and gone, and he also
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
aforementioned Messiah. Now, maybe that message has no basis in
reality, but it is nonetheless the message of the NT.

Oh, and irrelevant? Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush, Pope John Paul II, et
cetera), I'd imagine the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality or not). Elsewhere in the
thread, Christopher maid a passing (and disdainful) reference to the
Quran ("Koran"); I think the message of that book is relevant too, for
reasons similar to those just listed.
walksalone
2004-06-08 06:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Actually, regardless of whether the NT reflects "somebody else's
religion," that does not mean it does not have a message. It seems to
have a very clear message: God's son has come and gone, and he also
Which one would that be, there are just so many gods from back then, Those
that have studied the society its mythology know for the Jews to accept a
messiah, it had certain jib requirements that had to be met, no options
Post by Nico Demusopelous
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
No, that was not done, or maybe you can explain why your version that
obviously differs from that developed in & my your parent myth is in error.
Some of the major points for a messiah of that era.
A: He would establish an earthly kingdom & usher in an era of peace. Part
of the way that would be done is by delivering Israel from the Romans, as
had been done by every other messiah that Yahweh sent.
B: The Messiah was likely to be from the line of the Macaabee, as was the
last known person that qualified for the title. Memory serves right, that
person did not ask for the recognition.
C: Th e messiah would have had to have only human parents, the concept of a
god's offspring was totally against Jewish mythology, as it is today.
D: No high priest, or king anointed him, as the prodeure called for.

Now, would you like to discuss for the audience why you know more about who
the messiah would be than say the people that developed the concept.
I mean, you do know that the messiah did not really have to be Jewish, r
from the line of Judah don't you?
Post by Nico Demusopelous
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
But there is the rub you see. Those that have actually studied the myth
realise you are issuing platitudes & not actual information. Historically
there is no Jesus as described in the artificial grimorie of the xians
myth. Historically there can be no messsiah as claimed in the xian myth.
What that translates to in that instead of evidence all you can do is muter
the same magic incantations & glower when people fail to fall all over
themselves in climbing on your bandwagon.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
aforementioned Messiah. Now, maybe that message has no basis in
reality, but it is nonetheless the message of the NT.
It s he claim, there is a difference. Whether you can discern that or not
is moot to any atheist, or non xian I have ever met or am aware of.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Oh, and irrelevant? Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush, Pope John Paul II, et
None good over all, so the only way your gads can influence humanity is not
by themselves, but through people enslaved to the xian myth. Self enslaved
to be sure, but enslaved for all of that. Just like the Islamics as an
example.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
cetera), I'd imagine the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality or not). Elsewhere in the
thread, Christopher maid a passing (and disdainful) reference to the
Quran ("Koran"); I think the message of that book is relevant too, for
reasons similar to those just listed.
Only to followers of that myth. Like any other revealed god of the desert,
the message seems to be one of coercion & hate rather than benevolence as
those that provide the evidence give credence to an observation about there
being enough religion for hate but not enough for love. Not a very new
observation either, was made by one J. Swift of Ireland some time ago.


walksalone who has no doubt that those that control weapons or fanatics
have influence, but bully's always have.
Nico Demusopelous
2004-06-09 03:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Actually, regardless of whether the NT reflects "somebody else's
religion," that does not mean it does not have a message. It seems to
have a very clear message: God's son has come and gone, and he also
Which one would that be, there are just so many gods from back then,
The God that various Biblical verses *claim* is the only God (exempli
gratia: Isaiah 44:6, Romans 3:29-30, 1 Corinthians 8:4, 1 Timothy 2:5,
James 2:19), which generally would be the God of Abraham, Jacob, et
cetera...
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
No, that was not done,
What was not done? You have trouble following my posts apparently. The
question was whether there was a message in the NT, not whether this
message reflected reality. Are you claiming that Jesus was not the
Messiah? That would be irrelevant to my post.
Post by walksalone
Now, would you like to discuss for the audience why you know more about who
the messiah would be than say the people that developed the concept.
Funny. Did I ever positively assert that there was a Messiah, and whom
that might have been if there was? No. Thanks for contributing
though...
Post by walksalone
I mean, you do know that the messiah did not really have to be Jewish, r
from the line of Judah don't you?
I know of no Orthodox Jew that would agree with you, but again, this
is irrelevant to the discussion.
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
But there is the rub you see. Those that have actually studied the myth
realise you are issuing platitudes & not actual information. Historically
there is no Jesus as described in the artificial grimorie of the xians
myth. Historically there can be no messsiah as claimed in the xian myth.
So, are you saying that the message of the NT does not reflect
reality? That's fine, but that was not the topic I was discussing. The
question was whether the NT had a message, not whether the message
reflected reality. Feel free to reread the post.
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Oh, and irrelevant? Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush, Pope John Paul II, et
None good over all, so the only way your gads can influence humanity is not
by themselves, but through people enslaved to the xian myth. Self enslaved
to be sure, but enslaved for all of that. Just like the Islamics as an
example.
Um, okay, whatever that means. But are you agreeing with me that
Christianity does have an influence on international politics? If so,
then that means the Christian message is far from irrelevant.
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
I'd imagine the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality or not). Elsewhere in the
thread, Christopher made a passing (and disdainful) reference to the
Quran ("Koran"); I think the message of that book is relevant too, for
reasons similar to those just listed.
Only to followers of that myth.
Uh, no, not only to the "followers of that myth" (i.e. believers in
the Qur'an - Muslims). Considering the role Islam plays on the world
stage, the message of the Qur'an effects the lives even of non-Muslims
in many instances (while I'm not sure this is a good example, 911
might be worth noting, though that is not meant to imply the Qur'an
was a necessary antecedent to 911).
walksalone
2004-06-09 12:06:32 UTC
Permalink
On 8 Jun 2004 20:35:51 -0700, Nico Demusopelous scrawled a lot.
followups set to groups I monitor, can't imagine [like hell I can't] why
Islam & atheist groups are included. Can anyone say flame bait from the
originators of the post?
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Actually, regardless of whether the NT reflects "somebody else's
religion," that does not mean it does not have a message. It seems to
have a very clear message: God's son has come and gone, and he also
Which one would that be, there are just so many gods from back then,
The God that various Biblical verses *claim* is the only God (exempli
gratia: Isaiah 44:6, Romans 3:29-30, 1 Corinthians 8:4, 1 Timothy 2:5,
James 2:19), which generally would be the God of Abraham, Jacob, et
cetera...
Well, the god of Abraham is known, that would be El, Not El Shaddy [who was
also part of the Jewish pantheon, or any of the others]. Now some things
are known about El, Historically known.
He was the supreme god of the Canaanite pantheon for about from -6k Gr.
until that society collapsed.
That is not the current god of The Jewish mythology, which is Yahweh, son
of El. You can find that information in your grimorie, but for the evidence
you will have to look elsewhere in books that reference archeological
findings, such as the library's on Ebla, Ur, & Ra Samas[s], formally known
as Ninva IIRRC.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
No, that was not done,
What was not done? You have trouble following my posts apparently. The
N messiah was present during the 1st. cen according to Jewish theology,
concept & requirements. The last known messiah, again IIRC, did not even
ask for the title, but he did the job. You do know who that is no doubt.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
question was whether there was a message in the NT, not whether this
message reflected reality. Are you claiming that Jesus was not the
Messiah? That would be irrelevant to my post.
Not claiming anything, just observing. But it is relevant if you claim to
discuss the greatest message of the NT, for the NT is based on the false
claim that a Jesus of Nazareth existed as described. Anything you claim
other than that is not On topic according to the header of this post/
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Now, would you like to discuss for the audience why you know more about who
the messiah would be than say the people that developed the concept.
Funny. Did I ever positively assert that there was a Messiah, and whom
You have cut out so much, without marking it, that no one can tell by now,
unless they want to waste time looking in their archives. Which I don't. So
far you appear to be an asserter, not a teacher. Therefore it is a waste of
my time to find out if you implied [standard procedure for members of the
bleater brigade] or stated.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
that might have been if there was? No. Thanks for contributing
though...
Now, back to the topic, what greatest message?
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
I mean, you do know that the messiah did not really have to be Jewish, r
from the line of Judah don't you?
I know of no Orthodox Jew that would agree with you, but again, this
is irrelevant to the discussion.
But it is not, for whether the requirements were met, or they were not. In
the case of the claimed messiah, they were not is central to the xian myth.
The connection, if the Jewish myth is false, so is tours.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
But there is the rub you see. Those that have actually studied the myth
realise you are issuing platitudes & not actual information. Historically
there is no Jesus as described in the artificial grimorie of the xians
myth. Historically there can be no messsiah as claimed in the xian myth.
So, are you saying that the message of the NT does not reflect
reality? That's fine, but that was not the topic I was discussing. The
It never has. Not all that important really.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
question was whether the NT had a message, not whether the message
reflected reality. Feel free to reread the post.
No thanks, if you want philosophy, I recommend you haunt groups of that
nature. You really haven't defined what you were trying to do until just
now. Evfen then you are not doing a good jib. I did learn to read in
context, lives depended on it, so I learned real good. I also learned that
implication is mightier than the written word, which is why I try to avoid
it myself.
So if you are here to discuss concepts instead of what is claimed to be
real, you are OT in AA or ARCB, & I suspect the other xian groups unless
your title reflects that. At the utleast your opening outline for the
discussion should reflect that. If you did not start the discussion, when
you join you should, if able, outline what it is you are trying to do.
That is not just my opinion, you find it pretty much in effect where
serious discussion is involved, almost an unwritten law one could say.
Now, feel free to define what you want to accomplish. It may, or may not be
of interest to me.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Oh, and irrelevant? Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush, Pope John Paul II, et
None good over all, so the only way your gads can influence humanity is not
by themselves, but through people enslaved to the xian myth. Self enslaved
to be sure, but enslaved for all of that. Just like the Islamics as an
example.
Um, okay, whatever that means. But are you agreeing with me that
Christianity does have an influence on international politics? If so,
then that means the Christian message is far from irrelevant.
The xian mythology. & I suspect other myths have the same problem.
Of & by themselves they are powerless. Those cl,aimed gods require human
intervention to get their way.
So, indirectly, which seems to be your prefedred argumentation, they do
through the sheep that follow those myths, influence politics. In some
nations, such as the US, they are not supposed to but that never stopped a
bleater before.
Directly, they do not unless that nation is a theocracy, & those have been
tried & discarded in the *Western* Civilizations as well as the majority of
Asia & Africa. Care to guess why. Read a history book, a well researched
one.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
I'd imagine the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality or not). Elsewhere in the
thread, Christopher made a passing (and disdainful) reference to the
Quran ("Koran"); I think the message of that book is relevant too, for
reasons similar to those just listed.
Only to followers of that myth.
Uh, no, not only to the "followers of that myth" (i.e. believers in
the Qur'an - Muslims). Considering the role Islam plays on the world
stage, the message of the Qur'an effects the lives even of non-Muslims
in many instances (while I'm not sure this is a good example, 911
might be worth noting, though that is not meant to imply the Qur'an
was a necessary antecedent to 911).
Actually, 911 was against the Q'uaran, & Islamics are not your standard
bleaters. The live their myth. Now, are you expanding the discussion to
include all mythologies now. You see, as far as I know, the NT is peculiar
to only on mythology & has direct bearing on only one group of sheep.
That was a piece of information I stumbled on while researching god claims.

The Hadith Qudsi 6

The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of
Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah
will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them.

The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I
fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied - you did
but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was
said.

Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast
into Hell-fire.


something not being taught apparently.

By the way, you keep dancing around & apparently are not sure where you ant
to go with this, so I recommend if you are serious about it, outline it &
try to follow that outline. When it gets to far afield, & it will, change
the title if you think people are still interested.
It might be you will need to narrow down your field of discussion.
Case in point, this post, The title is so generic & for some emotionally
charged, hat there is no way to tell what you will find when you open the
post.

& you still have to point out in definitive terms what the so called
message is/ Definitive terms don't change without mutual agreement.

walksalone who has seen this dance many times, far to many. It is not one
sided either.
--
Christian: This term has many meanings:
We consider any person or group to be Christian if they devoutly,
seriously regards themselves to be Christian. Thus, Jehovah's Witnesses,
Mormons Roman Catholic, and Unificationists are Christians. Many groups,
particularly conservative Christians, regard many of these denominations as
"cults" and not part of Christianity.
Webster's New World Dictionary: A person believing in Jesus as
the Christ, or in the religion based upon the teachings of Jesus
Concise Oxford Dictionary: Person believing in, professing or
belonging to the religion of Christ. (They don't define exactly what the
religion of Christ is)
Evangelical/Fundamentalist usage: often used to refer to only
Evangelical Christian faith groups within Christianity.
Mike
2004-06-09 09:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Crusader Wabbit
Truth Hunter, read the New Testament. You may or may not understand the
message, but it is there loud and clear if you will open your eyes and read
the words.
What message? It's merely the irrelevant writings of somebody else's
religion.
Actually, regardless of whether the NT reflects "somebody else's
religion," that does not mean it does not have a message. It seems to
have a very clear message: God's son has come and gone, and he also
Which one would that be, there are just so many gods from back then, Those
that have studied the society its mythology know for the Jews to accept a
messiah, it had certain jib requirements that had to be met, no options
Post by Nico Demusopelous
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
No, that was not done, or maybe you can explain why your version that
obviously differs from that developed in & my your parent myth is in error.
Some of the major points for a messiah of that era.
A: He would establish an earthly kingdom & usher in an era of peace. Part
of the way that would be done is by delivering Israel from the Romans, as
had been done by every other messiah that Yahweh sent.
B: The Messiah was likely to be from the line of the Macaabee, as was the
last known person that qualified for the title. Memory serves right, that
person did not ask for the recognition.
C: Th e messiah would have had to have only human parents, the concept of a
god's offspring was totally against Jewish mythology, as it is today.
D: No high priest, or king anointed him, as the prodeure called for.
1. Can you please list your sources?
Post by walksalone
Now, would you like to discuss for the audience why you know more about who
the messiah would be than say the people that developed the concept.
I mean, you do know that the messiah did not really have to be Jewish, r
from the line of Judah don't you?
2. Again, I would be interested in your sources?
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
But there is the rub you see. Those that have actually studied the myth
realise you are issuing platitudes & not actual information. Historically
there is no Jesus as described in the artificial grimorie of the xians
myth.
3. Again referrences please.... ( and I pretty much think some one who
has truely studied this could list referrence for and against the existance)

Historically there can be no messsiah as claimed in the xian myth.
Post by walksalone
What that translates to in that instead of evidence all you can do is muter
the same magic incantations & glower when people fail to fall all over
themselves in climbing on your bandwagon.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
aforementioned Messiah. Now, maybe that message has no basis in
reality, but it is nonetheless the message of the NT.
It s he claim, there is a difference. Whether you can discern that or not
is moot to any atheist, or non xian I have ever met or am aware of.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Oh, and irrelevant? Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush, Pope John Paul II, et
None good over all, so the only way your gads can influence humanity is not
by themselves, but through people enslaved to the xian myth. Self enslaved
to be sure, but enslaved for all of that. Just like the Islamics as an
example.
Post by Nico Demusopelous
cetera), I'd imagine the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality or not). Elsewhere in the
thread, Christopher maid a passing (and disdainful) reference to the
Quran ("Koran"); I think the message of that book is relevant too, for
reasons similar to those just listed.
Only to followers of that myth. Like any other revealed god of the desert,
the message seems to be one of coercion & hate rather than benevolence as
those that provide the evidence give credence to an observation about there
being enough religion for hate but not enough for love. Not a very new
observation either, was made by one J. Swift of Ireland some time ago.
4. Yip, again I would care for you to list some reading matterial.
Post by walksalone
walksalone who has no doubt that those that control weapons or fanatics
have influence, but bully's always have.
So could you please point me in the direction of relevant reading?

Mike who does not care for the"holyer than thou" attitude and still thinks
discussions should be conducted with more respect.
walksalone
2004-06-09 16:38:23 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:56:40 +0100, Mike wrote:
Mike, I am posting from the Baptist group, due to you using outhouse
express, a microshaft product, am not certain where you are posting from
so can not set the follow ups like I should, so if you can, respond with
headers intact & set the followups to include the Baptist group.
Snip
Post by Mike
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
happened to be the Messiah the Jews were anticipating. His death some
No, that was not done, or maybe you can explain why your version that
obviously differs from that developed in & my your parent myth is in
snip
Post by Mike
Post by walksalone
C: Th e messiah would have had to have only human parents, the concept of
a
Post by walksalone
god's offspring was totally against Jewish mythology, as it is today.
D: No high priest, or king anointed him, as the prodeure called for.
1. Can you please list your sources?
BTW, the Jews are still waiting for their messiah, but I doubt it will ever
arrive. Kingdoms are a bit out of line as well as one nation telling other
nations what to do successfully.

The Torah for starters, then the list expands.
Post by Mike
Post by walksalone
Now, would you like to discuss for the audience why you know more about
who
Post by walksalone
the messiah would be than say the people that developed the concept.
I mean, you do know that the messiah did not really have to be Jewish, r
from the line of Judah don't you?
2. Again, I would be interested in your sources?
The prism of Kurash, & the Books known as the Macaabeess[sp] as primary
sources.
Post by Mike
Post by walksalone
Post by Nico Demusopelous
how paid for sins, and one can only receive salvation from the
punishments of a Divine being if they have faith in Jesus (the
But there is the rub you see. Those that have actually studied the myth
realise you are issuing platitudes & not actual information. Historically
there is no Jesus as described in the artificial grimorie of the xians
myth.
3. Again referrences please.... ( and I pretty much think some one who
has truely studied this could list referrence for and against the existance)
Have to wait, don't have that handy.

snip
Post by Mike
Post by walksalone
Only to followers of that myth. Like any other revealed god of the
desert,
Post by walksalone
the message seems to be one of coercion & hate rather than benevolence as
those that provide the evidence give credence to an observation about
there
Post by walksalone
being enough religion for hate but not enough for love. Not a very new
observation either, was made by one J. Swift of Ireland some time ago.
4. Yip, again I would care for you to list some reading matterial.
Post by walksalone
walksalone who has no doubt that those that control weapons or fanatics
have influence, but bully's always have.
So could you please point me in the direction of relevant reading?
Sure, but first, let's define the area you are interested in. They are not
always the same reference, & are not at this location.
Specifically in regards to:
The lineage of the Jewish mythology; apologetics, archaeology, history,
mythology itself.
What exactly. I can tie up over a megabyte in one post on that subject
alone, & I would rather not do that.
BTW, I don't do apologetics after their first assumption. Translation, I
don't normally get past the first line unless I need some humor.

The messiah as the concept i defined by Jewish priesthood prior to +1 Gr.
Not that much out there rally, the Torah & tanakh[sp] for starters.

The claimed history for one Jesus of Nazareth, I thought that would be self
evident. There is a dearth of claims, but no supporting evidence beyond
conjecture.

The observation for your fourth request, history. I can't say Mr. Swift was
in error. BTW, that does not exclude any mythology except xianity, it
includes them all.
Post by Mike
Mike who does not care for the"holyer than thou" attitude and still thinks
discussions should be conducted with more respect.
Hum, then a total jerk is to be treated with respect, no, I don't hold to
that. Respect is earned, & those that demand it usually can't earn it.
A lesson I learned the hard way, watching a good NCO go down the tubes
because he forgot that.
If you earn respect, you will receive it, grudgingly or otherwise.
After sixteen year of wearing chevrons., I still remember that part.
Kinda like the drill in the military of rendering a salute to a really
worthless office, you can render the respect to the rank & exclude the
person. If you know how to do it, you can even get away with it.

walksalone who will catch up with this request later today when he is at a
different location & Mike has provided more information. I am sure I could
post some references now, but might miss those he is looking for.
HP Opus
2004-06-13 14:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nico Demusopelous
Considering the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush,
Pope John Paul II, et cetera), I'd imagine
the message of the NT becomes quite relevant
(regardless of whether it reflects reality
or not).
GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: We're gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over...
(2)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell... (4)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I don't necessarily believe every single word [in the
Bible] is literally true. ...The verdict is still out on how God
created the earth. (5)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I feel like God wants me to run for President. I
can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me.
Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my
family, but God wants me to do it." (6)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: There's Adam Clymer -- major league asshole -- from
the New York Times... (7)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different
ways. ...And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for
me not to try to figure out...who gets to go to heaven. ...And when I
told you I'm a sinner -- you need to take that in the figurative
sense. (8)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret
I can't say anything more. (9)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: ...four Gentile governors - one Methodist, two
Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends...prayed
together, on bended knee...around an altar kneeling, one common Lord.
Faith changes lives. I know, because faith has changed mine. (10)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite
secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"] No qualms at
all. I was honored. ...["How do I demystify it a bit for those who
might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral
Commission?"] Without revealing all the great secrets? ...Someone a
year ahead of me tapped me. There was an entry celebration. I can't
remember whether my dad showed up or not. (11)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions
recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice
and service. Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the
marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire
countless men, women and children today. (12)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the
National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views. No
matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal --
a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for
our lives. ...Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a
force of goodness. Men and women can be compassionate without faith,
but faith often inspires compassion. Human beings can love without
faith, but faith is a great teacher of love. ...Faith is also
important to the civility of our country. It teaches us not merely to
tolerate one another, but to respect one another -- to show a regard
for different views and the courtesy to listen. This is essential to
democracy. It is also the proper way to treat human beings created
in the divine image. We'll have our disagreements. Civility does not
require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs. Civility does not demand
casual creeds and colorless convictions. Americans have always
believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one
another. But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be
free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will. We have an
obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents. As the
Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from
the same spring. (13)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: It's...a high honor for me to be on the podium with so
many outstanding leaders of faith. I've had the honor of meeting many
of the cardinals who are here, and many of the bishops and archbishops
from around the country. ...The Catholic Church is fortunate to have
such strong, capable, decent leadership. And America is fortunate to
have such strong leaders in our midst. ...All of you are part of the
humanizing mission which is part of the "great commission" and the
Pope John Paul II Cultural Center, which we will dedicate tomorrow,
will bring this message to generations of Americans in this capital of
our nation. The best way to honor Pope John Paul II, truly one of the
great men, is to take his teaching seriously; is to listen to his
words and put his words and teachings into action here in America.
This is a challenge we must accept. (14)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Cardinal Maida, ...Cardinal Szocha, ...and, Cardinal
McCarrick, ...I'm proud to live in your archdiocese. ...When Cardinal
Wojtyla spoke here at Catholic University in 1976, few imagined the
course his life would take, or the history his life would shape.
...Now he's kissed the ground of 123 countries and leads a flock of 1
billion into the Third Millennium. We remember the Pope's visit to
Israel and his mission of reconciliation and mutual respect between
Christians and Jews. He is the first modern Pope to enter a synagogue
or visit an Islamic country. ...His is not the power of armies or
technology or wealth. It is the unexpected power of a baby in a
stable, of a man on a cross, of a simple fisherman who carried a
message of hope to Rome. ...We thank God for this rare man, a servant
of God and a hero of history. And I thank all of you for building this
center of conscience and reflection in our Nation's Capital. (15)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take
a while... [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (16)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that...the
teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good. ...And I also
appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (17)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there
is a universal and gracious God. (18)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: ...universal God...is important -- obviously,
important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our
country. (19)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and
synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a
neighbor, America's culture is changing. ...Out of the evil done to
this great land is going to come incredible good... (20)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is...a faith based upon love, not hate.
...Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity...
Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (21)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Tomorrow is September the 12th. A milestone is passed,
and a mission goes on. Be confident. Our country is strong. And our
cause is even larger than our country. Ours is the cause of human
dignity; freedom guided by conscience and guarded by peace. This ideal
of America is the hope of all mankind. That hope drew millions to this
harbor. That hope still lights our way. And the light shines in the
darkness. And the darkness will not overcome it. [John 1:5] May God
bless America. (22)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of
Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan. ...Islam traces
its origins back to God's call on Abraham. And Ramadan commemorates
the revelation of God's word in the Holy Koran to the prophet
Mohammad... The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that...Islam
affirms God's justice... Eid Mubarak. God bless. (23)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely
to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (24)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam. We're taking him out. (25)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and
religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs. In prayer, we share
the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the
plans He has for our lives. ...In this hour of history's calling,
Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques,
and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty. ...Now,
therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of
America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer.
I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own
faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received
and for God's continued guidance and protection. (26)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women
are not making the journey home. ...Every name, every life is a loss
to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve.
There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray in God's time
their reunion will come. (27)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them,
and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did,
and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If
you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and
if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (28)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam's a peaceful religion. The basic tenets of
Islam is peace and respect and tolerance. (29)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Ramadan...provides Muslims a time to...practice God's
commands. ...Islam is a peaceful religion... (30)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: Ramadan...this holy time..is...a good time for people
of all faiths to reflect on...[our] gratitude to God... I
particularly want to thank Imam Faizul Khan, who will lead us in
prayer. ...Islam is a religion that brings hope and comfort to good
people across America and around the world. Tonight we honor...the
tradition of Islam by hosting this Iftaar at the White House. (31)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: By encouraging the celebration of faith and sharing of
God's love and boundless mercy, churches like yours [the Metropolitan
Community Churches] put hope in people's hearts and a sense of purpose
in their lives... This milestone provides an opportunity to reflect
on your years of service and to rejoice in God's faithfulness to your
congregation. (32)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: [To the remark, "Some people who share your beliefs
don't believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty."] I do say
that...I believe we worship the same God. (33)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: [To Diane Sawyer's question "are you saying you will
absolutely support a Constitutional amendment against gay marriage and
against gay civil unions?" my answer is:] the position of this
administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to
make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state
or start[s] at the state level. ...[To her statement that "Vice
President Cheney has spoken out in favor of civil unions [and] In the
2000 election, you said pretty much it was a state issue", I say:]
That's right. Except and unless judicial rulings undermine the
sanctity of marriage. In which case, we may need a Constitutional
amendment. ...I also think it's very important, on this subject, that
the country be tolerant of people and understand people, but tolerance
and belief in marriage aren't mutually exclusive points of view. ...I
do believe in the sanctity of marriage. ... but I don't see that as
conflict with being a tolerant person or an understanding person...
(34)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)

GEORGE W. BUSH: I deserve a second term because, first, I've showed
the American people I'm capable of handling tough times... And
secondly, we're changing the world... Let me rephrase that: The world
is changing, and we're helping to change it. ... (35)

NICO DEMUSOPELOUS: Consider...the influence Christians have on
international politics (see: George Bush...)



S O U R C E S

(1) George W. Bush in April 1986, addressing Al Hunt of the Wall
Street Journal, quoted in Jake Tapper, "God Is Their CoPilot: Both
Born-Again, Bush and Gore Have Made This the Most God-Fearing
Presidential Race in 100 Years. But Their Faiths Have Led these Men in
Two Completely Different Directions," SALON, 07 July 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/.

(2) George W. Bush in March 1987 quoted by Doug Wead, cited in Hanna
Rosin, "Applying Personal Faith to Public Policy: 'Changed Man'
Advocates Church-Based Programs," WASHINGTON POST, 24 July 2000,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A31740-2000Jul23&notFound=true.
"[George W. Bush's] father, then running for president, was under
attack by what inside the campaign they called 'the aliens' --
evangelical Republicans flocking to the candidacy of Pat Robertson.
Bush arrived in Washington in March 1987 and was put in charge of
'coalitions,' the campaign code word for evangelicals. 'He came in
and said, "We're gonna take this thing over,"' recalls Doug Wead, a
campaign aide with ties to the evangelicals and Bush's partner in the
venture."

(3) George W. Bush in response to a Hartford [Connecticut] Courant
reporter who asked what Bush and his father talked about when they
weren't discussing politics at the 1988 Republican convention, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.

(4) Texas Governor George W. Bush in 1998, right before leaving for a
trip to Israel, in response to an Austin American-Statesman reporter
who asked Bush what he would say to the Israelis upon arrival, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.

(5) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in "Bush: Christianity
Central to His Life", RELIGION TODAY, 26 January 2000, or in Peter
Glover, "Playing the Christian Card: The Politics of Religion", CRN
NEWS, Number 9, 2000,
http://www.c-r-n.org.uk/articles/gen_playing.pdf, or in Michael Lind,
"Bush Whistles Dixie," NEWSWEEK, 23 December 2003,
http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&pubID=1078, or in
Daniel Lazare, "THE NEW YORKER Goes to War", NATION, 15 May 2003,
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030602&c=1&s=lazare, or in
Robin McKie and Martin Bright, "In the Beginning", OBSERVER, 17 March
2002, http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,668840,00.html,
or in Patrick Johnston, "Why Christians Should Not Vote for George W.
Bush", INTELLECTUAL CONSERVATIVE, 15 February 2004,
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3114.html)

(6) Texas Governor George W. Bush, speaking to James Robinson in the
election year 2000, quoted in Stephen Mansfield, THE FAITH OF GEORGE
W. BUSH, Tarcher/Penguin, November 2003.

(7) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Jake Tapper, "A 'Major
League Asshole': In an Embarrassing Gaffe, George W. Bush Insults a
New York Times Reporter," SALON, 04 September 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/.

(8) Texas Governor George W. Bush, "George W. Bush: Running on His
Faith," US NEWS ONLINE, 1999,
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/33/story_3345_1.html.

(9) Texas Governor George W. Bush, A CHARGE TO KEEP, ed. Mickey
Herskowitz, Morrow,William & Co., November 1999.

(10) Ibid.

(11) Texas Governor George W. Bush interviewed in Walter Isaacson, "My
Heritage Is Part of Who I Am," TIME, 30 July 2000,
http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview1.html
and http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview2.html.

(12) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Laurie Goodstein,
"Bush's 'Jesus Day' Is Called a First Amendment Violation," NEW YORK
TIMES, 06 August 2000, http://www.beth-am.org/index2.cfm?page=362.

(13) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at
National Prayer Breakfast, Washington Hilton Hotel, Washington. D.C.,"
Office of the Press Secretary, 01 February 2001,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/02/20010201.html.

(14) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President to
Cardinals, Bishops and Catholic Leaders, The East Room", Office of the
Press Secretary, 21 March 2001,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010322.html.

(15) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at
Dedication of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center, Catholic
University Washington, D.C.", Office of the Press Secretary, 22 March
2001, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010322-14.html
and http://www.usembassy.it/file2001_03/alia/a1032206.htm.

(16) US President George W. Bush quoted in John F. Harris, "Bush Gets
More International Support For U.S. Campaign Against Terrorism:
Officials Warn New Attacks Are Possible," WASHINGTON POST, 17
September 2001, page A01,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41157/2001Sep16.html.

(17) US President George W. Bush, "Text: Bush Welcomes Muslim
Americans to White House," 26 September 2001,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/attacked/transcripts/bushtext2_092601.html.

(18) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President to
Community and Religious Leaders, Spaso House, Moscow, Russia," Office
of the Press Secretary, 24 May 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020524-12.html.

(19) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush, President Putin
Discuss Joint Efforts against Terrorism: Remarks by President Bush and
Russian President Putin in Photo Opportunity - Calgary, Kananaskis,
Canada," Office of the Press Secretary, 27 June 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020627-3.html.

(20) US President George W. Bush, "President Talks Homeland/Economic
Security at Mt. Rushmore: Remarks by the President on Homeland
Security and the Budget," Mount Rushmore, South Dakota, Office of the
Press Secretary, 15 August 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020815.html.

(21) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush Holds Roundtable
with Arab- and Muslim-American Leaders, Embassy at Afghanistan,
Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 10 September 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020910-7.html.

(22) US President George W. Bush, "President's Remarks to the Nation,
Ellis Island, New York, New York", Office of the Press Secretary, 11
September 2002, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020911-3.html.

(23) US President George W. Bush, "President Commemorates Eid al-Fitr:
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr, The Islamic Center of
Washington, D.C., Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 05
December 2002, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021205-5.html.

(24) US President George W. Bush, "President Addresses Nation on Space
Shuttle Columbia Tragedy: Remarks by the President on the Loss of
Space Shuttle Columbia, The Cabinet Room, 01 February 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030201-2.html.

(25) US President George W. Bush at the White House in March 2002,
quoted in Michael Elliott and James Carney, "First Stop, Iraq: How Did
the U.S. End up Taking on Saddam? The Inside Story of How Iraq Jumped
to the Top of Bush's Agenda -- and Why the Outcome There May
Foreshadow a Different World Order," TIME, 23 March 2003,
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030331/wroad.html.

(26) US President George W. Bush, "National Day of Prayer, 2003, by
the President of the United States of America: A Proclamation," Office
of the Press Secretary, 30 April 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030430-22.html.

(27) US President George W. Bush, "Full Text: Bush Speech Aboard the
USS Abraham Lincoln," 01 May 2003,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2627-2003May1.html.

(28) US President George W. Bush, quoted by Palestinian Prime Minister
Mahmoud Abbas, in Arnon Regular, "'Road Map Is a Life Saver for Us,'
PM Abbas Tells Hamas," HAARETZ, 25 June 2003,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y.
Also cf. Chris Floyd, "Errand Boy," MOSCOW TIMES, 27 June 2003,
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/06/27/120.html.

(29) US President George W. Bush, "Roundtable Interview of the
President by the Press Pool, Aboard Air Force One, En Route Canberra,
Australia," Office of the Press Secretary, 22 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031022-7.html.

(30) US President George W. Bush, "President's Ramadan Message,"
Office of the Press Secretary, 24 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031024-10.html.

(31) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at Iftaar
with Ambassadors and Muslim Leaders, State Floor," Office of the Press
Secretary, 28 October 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031028-9.html.

(32) US President George W. Bush, Letter dating 14 October 2003 to the
founding congregation in Los Angeles of the Metropolitan Community
Churches, led by leading homosexual activist Rev. Troy D. Perry, on
the occasion of its 35th anniversary. quoted in "Bush Cheers 'Gay'
Church after 'Marriage Week': Attempts to Please Family Advocates,
Homosexuals Baffle Both Groups", WORLDNETDAILY, 12 November 2003,
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35539.

(33) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush, Prime Minister Hold
Joint Press Conference, Foreign and Commonwealth Offices, London,
England," Office of the Press Secretary, 20 November 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031120-3.html; also
"Text of Bush, Blair Remarks: A Text of President Bush's and British
Prime Minister Tony Blair's Remarks Thursday at the Foreign and
Commonwealth Offices in London, As provided by the White House,"
ASSOCIATED PRESS, 20 November 2003,
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-bush-blair-text,0,5763089.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines.

(34) US President George W. Bush, "‘Ultimate Penalty': Excerpts From
Interview With President Bush -- Part 3," Diane Sawyer's Dec. 16
interview with President Bush, 16 December 2003,
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/US/bush_sawyer_excerpts_3_031216.html.

(35) US President George W. Bush, quoted in Bill Sammon, "Bush Aims to
Avoid Father's Mistakes", WASHINGTON TIMES, 10 May 2004,
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040510-122703-4851r.htm.

Son of John Leo
2004-06-06 13:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Hitler was sectarian - so are you

Share Tips from Shabbydabbydoo Shares
All Markets covered - www.phpexpert.org/sharetips/
MrPepper11
2004-06-09 17:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Son of John Leo
Post by Truth Hunter
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Hitler was sectarian - so are you
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations
for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient
world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for
its own doctrine." - Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf"

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the
Almighty Creator." - Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf"
JustMe
2004-06-06 06:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Truth Hunter is a muslim troll...

Here's what he posted way back:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

From: Truth Hunter (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Explosives in Shoes - CIA Movie
View: Complete Thread (76 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.security.terrorism, alt.current-events.wtc-explosion,
alt.politics.economics, alt.prophecies.nostradamus, alt.religion.islam
Date: 2001-12-25 05:20:00 PST

Power Of Islam


THE DRAW OF ISLAM

http://www.iiie.net/Articles/DrawOfIslam.html
============================================================================
========

Mercy

Quran3.31 Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you
and forgive you
your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Quran4.110 If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards
seeks Allah's
forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran4.112. But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to
one that is
innocent, he carries (on himself) (both) a falsehood and a flagrant
sin.

Quran4.152 To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make
no distinction
between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards:
for
Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran5.74 Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For
Allah is Oft-
forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran6.165 It is He Who hath made you the inheritors of the earth: He
hath raised
you in ranks, some above others: that He may try you in the gifts He
hath given
you: for thy Lord is quick in punishment: yet He is indeed
Oft-forgiving, Most
Merciful.

(This is our theological position as to why some people are born
disadvantaged)


Quran7.153 But those who do wrong but repent thereafter and (truly)
believe,- verily
thy Lord is thereafter Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


==================================================================

There are hundreds of similar verses. The whole essence of Islam is
mercy and
forgivness, indeed, He (swt) states that it is better to forgive a
murderer
than punish him and satisfy you lust for revenge. The whole of Islam
is summed
up by a hadith :

Hadith Qudsi 34:

On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I
heard the
Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Allah the Almighty said:

O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall
forgive you
for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your
sins to
reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of
Me, I would
forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as
great as
the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I
would
bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it.


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The world is green and beautiful, and
Allah has appointed you as His stewards over it. He sees how you
acquit yourselves."
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Crusader Wabbit
2004-06-07 11:28:57 UTC
Permalink
I think the truth is that he's just another nut case, one among the many
found in this newgroup.

I remember a woman in this NG who when on and on about the "Sputnik Force",
a network of CIA satellites controlling our brainwaves, making us warlike
and full of hatred.

It's about as good an explanation for what's happen to the world as any I've
encountered.
Post by JustMe
Truth Hunter is a muslim troll...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Post by JustMe
---
Subject: Re: Explosives in Shoes - CIA Movie
View: Complete Thread (76 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.security.terrorism, alt.current-events.wtc-explosion,
alt.politics.economics, alt.prophecies.nostradamus, alt.religion.islam
Date: 2001-12-25 05:20:00 PST
Power Of Islam
THE DRAW OF ISLAM
http://www.iiie.net/Articles/DrawOfIslam.html
============================================================================
Post by JustMe
========
Mercy
Quran3.31 Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you
and forgive you
your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Quran4.110 If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards
seeks Allah's
forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quran4.112. But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to
one that is
innocent, he carries (on himself) (both) a falsehood and a flagrant
sin.
Quran4.152 To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make
no distinction
for
Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quran5.74 Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For
Allah is Oft-
forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quran6.165 It is He Who hath made you the inheritors of the earth: He
hath raised
you in ranks, some above others: that He may try you in the gifts He
hath given
you: for thy Lord is quick in punishment: yet He is indeed
Oft-forgiving, Most
Merciful.
(This is our theological position as to why some people are born
disadvantaged)
Quran7.153 But those who do wrong but repent thereafter and (truly)
believe,- verily
thy Lord is thereafter Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
==================================================================
There are hundreds of similar verses. The whole essence of Islam is
mercy and
forgivness, indeed, He (swt) states that it is better to forgive a
murderer
than punish him and satisfy you lust for revenge. The whole of Islam
is summed
On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I
heard the
O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall
forgive you
for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your
sins to
reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of
Me, I would
forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as
great as
the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I
would
bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The world is green and beautiful, and
Allah has appointed you as His stewards over it. He sees how you
acquit yourselves."
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Jez
2004-06-09 12:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
The greatest messages of the New Testament
"Take this book.....in an emergency, you will have toilet-paper."
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
h***@yessiree.ca
2004-06-10 01:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Hunter
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
A) Christians have a responsibility to protect the weak and innocent

B)"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you..." Now, honestly,
what would you expect someone to do to you if you were creeping towards his
daughter's bedroom with a knife? That's right, take the baseball bat and
cave your stupid head in. That's what it means, I'm just a little blunter
than Jesus was.

H.
walksalone
2004-06-10 10:18:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:59:37 GMT, ***@yessiree.ca wrote:
follow ups set to appropriate groups
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by Truth Hunter
"This is one of the greatest messages of the New Testament. Love thy
neighbour as thyself - Do onto others as you would have them do onto
you - Turn the other cheek!"
Let's say someone breaks into your home and is creeping towards your
daughter/sister/cousin's bedroom with a knife in his hand. You stand
there in the hallway and there happens to be a baseball bat in front
of you.
Will you let him walk into her bedroom and then forgive him for raping
and murdering daughter/sister/cousin? Will you love him as you love
yourself?
So in this case, will you not"turn the other cheek"? this is a fine
example of hypocrite.
No person of great mental maturity, including you, sees any beauty in
a man sitting back and watching while his daughter is raped and then
in "good Christain pacifism" tossing a second daughter in to be
ravaged. Could you imagine if your workplace was full of people
stealing, beating, and raping each other and the victims just keep
smiling and taking it and even giving money yo utheir tormentors as a
reward for messing them over? It take s a sick and demented mind to
think there was any beayty in such lewd chaos.
A) Christians have a responsibility to protect the weak and innocent
So, when they going to start doing that? As a group, they are a no show.
Or are the vigilantes back in vogue?
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
B)"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you..." Now, honestly,
A rehash of the concept proposed by Confucius among others. It was ran up
the flag pole by Hiillel about -50Gr.
Nothing new there, & again, when will that start happening, after the world
is destroyed as far as personal integrity & diversity is concerned.
Destroyed by people just like you that believe they have the right to tell
others what is right or wrong, or how to believe.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
what would you expect someone to do to you if you were creeping towards his
daughter's bedroom with a knife? That's right, take the baseball bat and
cave your stupid head in. That's what it means, I'm just a little blunter
than Jesus was.
Not really, the clown referred to as Jesus in your fractured fairy tale
didn't do what he said others were to do either, so why should you be any
different.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
H.
walksalone who is not surprised to see Hugh in a Baptist group, he is so
special, or else running out of an audience in the other locations he can't
BS the troops in.
h***@yessiree.ca
2004-06-10 21:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
A) Christians have a responsibility to protect the weak and innocent
So, when they going to start doing that? As a group, they are a no show.
Or are the vigilantes back in vogue?
EXCUSE ME? A no show?
Post by walksalone
A rehash of the concept proposed by Confucius among others. It was ran up
the flag pole by Hiillel about -50Gr.
Nothing new there, & again, when will that start happening, after the world
is destroyed as far as personal integrity & diversity is concerned.
Destroyed by people just like you that believe they have the right to tell
others what is right or wrong, or how to believe.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.eh?
Okay, smart guy, given the scenario at hand, what would YOU do, and why is
my solution problematic?
Post by walksalone
Not really, the clown referred to as Jesus in your fractured fairy tale
didn't do what he said others were to do either, so why should you be any
different.
Okay, you lost me, what did Jesus say that he didn't do?

hughbetcha who is really baffled by the presence of wandersalong in a
Baptist group; given that he supposedly has no use for us superstitious
rabble.
walksalone
2004-06-10 22:23:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:47:09 GMT, ***@yessiree.ca wrote:

follow up set to trolls home group, or best guess given claims of troll.
ARR-C
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
A) Christians have a responsibility to protect the weak and innocent
So, when they going to start doing that? As a group, they are a no show.
Or are the vigilantes back in vogue?
EXCUSE ME? A no show?
You're excused, the men's room is out to the hall, take a left, 7th door on
the left.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
A rehash of the concept proposed by Confucius among others. It was ran up
the flag pole by Hiillel about -50Gr.
Nothing new there, & again, when will that start happening, after the world
is destroyed as far as personal integrity & diversity is concerned.
Destroyed by people just like you that believe they have the right to tell
others what is right or wrong, or how to believe.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.eh?
No, I can't do that, I am not xian so I have to stay with the evidence.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Okay, smart guy, given the scenario at hand, what would YOU do, and why is
my solution problematic?
Which one, you've pimped so many I can't keep up. Well, actually, it is not
worth keeping up.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
Not really, the clown referred to as Jesus in your fractured fairy tale
didn't do what he said others were to do either, so why should you be any
different.
Okay, you lost me, what did Jesus say that he didn't do?
Everything, he never existed. But then, you know that. BTW, read your
grimorie, its in there.

Or are you saying atheists know more about the claims of your mythology
that you do. I would not be surprised, many are ex-xians.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
hughbetcha who is really baffled by the presence of wandersalong in a
Baptist group; given that he supposedly has no use for us superstitious
rabble.
It does not take much to baffle you, a sentence of over 7 words usually
does the job.

walksalone who has always gone where he wishes, when he wishes, & will
continue to do so.
h***@yessiree.ca
2004-06-10 23:00:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
So, when they going to start doing that? As a group, they are a no show.
Or are the vigilantes back in vogue?
EXCUSE ME? A no show?
You're excused, the men's room is out to the hall, take a left, 7th door on
the left.
Okay, smart guy, given the scenario at hand, what would YOU do, and why is
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
my solution problematic?
Which one, you've pimped so many I can't keep up. Well, actually, it is not
worth keeping up.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
Not really, the clown referred to as Jesus in your fractured fairy tale
didn't do what he said others were to do either, so why should you be any
different.
Okay, you lost me, what did Jesus say that he didn't do?
Everything, he never existed. But then, you know that. BTW, read your
grimorie, its in there.
That is truly one of the finest examples of dodging the issue that I have
seen yet. Are you in politics? You should be, I hear the Democrats are
looking for a VP candidate.

hughbetcha who hopes walksallover at least watches where he's going, or what
he's stepping in.
walksalone
2004-06-10 23:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
So, when they going to start doing that? As a group, they are a no show.
Or are the vigilantes back in vogue?
EXCUSE ME? A no show?
You're excused, the men's room is out to the hall, take a left, 7th door on
the left.
Okay, smart guy, given the scenario at hand, what would YOU do, and why is
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
my solution problematic?
Which one, you've pimped so many I can't keep up. Well, actually, it is not
worth keeping up.
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
Post by walksalone
Not really, the clown referred to as Jesus in your fractured fairy tale
didn't do what he said others were to do either, so why should you be any
different.
Okay, you lost me, what did Jesus say that he didn't do?
Everything, he never existed. But then, you know that. BTW, read your
grimorie, its in there.
That is truly one of the finest examples of dodging the issue that I have
seen yet. Are you in politics? You should be, I hear the Democrats are
looking for a VP candidate.
What issue. For a discussion there are certain requirements, normally not
needed to be explained, but you appear not to comprehend them so here goes.
An agreed upon topic, said topic can be about anything.
A reasonable expectation of being able to engage in two way communication.
A reasonable expectation that if it is one on one conversation, the topic
will remain in focus.
Now, what topic do you want to discuss.
Pick one, if it amuses me, or might be something I have an interest in,
then sure.
Other wise you are simply preening your tail hairs for the audience.

Or I can pick one, say the concepts & supporting documents of the Jewish
myth & how the do not relate to the xian myth?
How about the history of Abraham, as claimed by the Torah, & supporting
documentation. No, how about the messiah concept, where it came from, how
it was developed, the concepts & why if can not apply to the xian claim of
a messiah? Along with supporting documentation.

To complicate, how about a comparison of the Egyptian book of the dead, the
9 negative confessions as compared to the ten commandments [you would love
that one]
Post by h***@yessiree.ca
hughbetcha who hopes walksallover at least watches where he's going, or what
he's stepping in.
Not to worry, I can smell where you are & have been. Did I mention I am
claned to the wolf, as well as the bear?

walksalone who has noticed, Hugh doesn't really say anything, just produces
excess death of band space.
Tom A.
2004-06-11 14:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by walksalone
Did I mention I am
claned to the wolf, as well as the bear?
walksalone
I thought wolves were pack animals, and the wolf who "walks alone" is
either an outcast or crazy.

Bears are mostly anti-social creatures who do walk alone most of their
lives.

Tom A.
"Question 7 - Sex. It's usually impossible to tell what sex a bear is,
unless on question 2 [How far from the bear were you when the encounter
took place] you answered A - 10 feet or less, and the bear was up on its
hind legs. Then you just look. Other than that, if you see a big bear
followed by one to four little bears, it's usually a female. Unless the
big bear is busy stuffing the little bears into its mouth, then it's
usually a male." - Ranger talk on "The Bear Management Form" at Glacier
National Park, c. 1988.
walksalone
2004-06-11 16:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom A.
Post by walksalone
Did I mention I am
claned to the wolf, as well as the bear?
walksalone
I thought wolves were pack animals, and the wolf who "walks alone" is
either an outcast or crazy.
See what you get for trying something new?
If you are simply playing silly buggers, feel free to bugger off. If you ar
seriously lacking in the social customs of the first nations feel free to
inquire for that information at your local library.
Post by Tom A.
Bears are mostly anti-social creatures who do walk alone most of their
lives.
Really, I am sure my clan elders will be thrilled at your corrction of
their understandings. Course, it could me ypou are simply trying tpo stir
the bucket, or honestly ignorant of what is going on. Tenatively I'll go
with the hnestly ignorant. Tribal ways are not of much interest to teh non
tribal members of he European based North American society;'s.
Post by Tom A.
Tom A.
"Question 7 - Sex. It's usually impossible to tell what sex a bear is,
unless on question 2 [How far from the bear were you when the encounter
took place] you answered A - 10 feet or less, and the bear was up on its
hind legs. Then you just look. Other than that, if you see a big bear
followed by one to four little bears, it's usually a female. Unless the
big bear is busy stuffing the little bears into its mouth, then it's
usually a male." - Ranger talk on "The Bear Management Form" at Glacier
National Park, c. 1988.
Sounds about right, but then, what do *ranges* know about the real world?
Rather a lot really.

However, you might want to make some spare change doing undergrad work
where you enter a bears den during its hibernation & try doing the sex
test, male or female. Never was that curios myself.

walksalone who is not surprised to see something like this, after all, they
can't actually find anything elsa to complain about, or correct, or do much
of anything it appears.
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